I don't want to start a political debate here, but I have to vent.

It sickens me how people have acted in this campaign.

At the beginning of the campaign, people picked, or already had picked, a party. Then, for the duration of the election, they viewed all events through the eyes of said party and reacted to the event along party lines. No one is thinking for themselves.

It's like the millions of dollars spent campaigning are garbage, because just about everyone made their choice within the first week.

It's like bothering to write an election platform is garbage, because if the liberals and conservatives switched platforms tomorrow no one would budge an inch from their choices. (Well, okay, maybe 10 people.)

I dare say that if the Conservatives/Liberals/NDP went out and murdered an opposition candidate, it wouldn't change too many people's votes.

People ought to vote based on what the candidates pledge to do, and in the case of incumbents, what they actually do. But maybe that's wishful thinking.



To prove my point, I'm asking everyone here if a) they're going to vote, and B) if they are (or even if they aren't), if they bothered to read the platforms of the parties before making their choice.

As I said earlier, I'm not here to get into a political argument. I just want to know if the election is really going as bad in the knowledge department as it looks to me.

I would say that the level of knowledge voters have of their candid is substantially more than what is needed in relation to level of participation that is required of them in Canadian Democracy™.

I voted to for your poll. I will never in my life vote PC. Stephen Harper is a crook who has finally started showing his true colors when he announced his plan of lowering the age where your criminal record can be in effect to 14 years old. Also, along with cutting taxes, he's also cutting lots of social programs in impoverished areas which keeps kids away from gangs.

I wasn't that keen on Dion at first, but he's grown on me. He's not very charismatic, but neither is Harper. Dion seems more honest to me, and statistics show that years when the Liberals are in power, the economy usually does better as well (I can't remember where I saw that, otherwise I'd love to provide a link).

The NDP like make promises of cutting taxes, throwing money everywhere for people to use. Problem is that the money has to come from somewhere, so if they know of some secret stash of money that other people don't know of.

I briefly considered voting green just for the hell of it (because I saw they had 12% in the polls and thought it was cool that they might actually win a seat this year). But I'm sticking with the Liberals.

I too am voting for the liberals, but I wouldn't be surprised if we have yet another PC minority government.

I am voting Green Party because a former blogger is running for them and I respect his opinions.

GO EMINEM ENTERPRISES!!

I didn't get to vote in your poll, but a) I did vote (in fact, I had to fill out a special ballot form and mail my vote because I'm in school and am not in my riding) and I know the party platforms (didn't read them though) and watched the debate.

Here's hoping we are done with Harper for good..

Yep, I think it's a foregone conclusion, but I'll be happy to eat my words tonight if it ends up differently -- although I really don't like Dion, but do like my riding's Liberal candidate. Oh well, in the end, the results are pretty much the same regardless of which party is in power...

I'm way more interested in American politics this time around.

I didn't vote, don't really see the point in voting when the outcome is pretty much a certainty.

Damn, our traditionally red riding went blue this time around! I blame it on a lot of the people I know that didn't vote since they just assumed it would be a Conservative minority. I think they said there were 10 million people who didn't cast their ballots across the country.

Wow, guess I wasn't the only one. Apathy FTW!

Link

The biggest loser last night was the environment. You can bet your ass the Liberals will blame their defeat on the "green shift". The Greens showing was also pathetic (but not unexpected). This election probably set environmentalism back 20 years, and we probably only had 10 years left anyway.

So what your saying is your for this carbon tax policy?

If so, how do you feel about the thousands of manufactoring jobs which would be lost due these factories (ie. main carbon producer) who pack up and move to Mexico/China.

Don't get me wrong, Im for the environment, but when Canada already has one the least competetive business environments of the g7 nations, why would you go and remove all (if any) advantage it has?

To promote IT and bioengineering industries that do not pollute? I don't know much about the Carbon Tax Policy, but it's going to have to happen sooner or later, so why not sooner?

See, this is what I don't get about the opposition to any environmental that seemed to emerge this campaign: what, we're going to invest billions of dollars in technologies that will be obsolete in 10 years? The reason Ontario's manufacturing industry is half dead right now is because most of it is GM, Ford, and Chrysler, the three worst environmental car companies in the world. If those companies are going to be saved from bankruptcy, they have to start doing something about that. GM's Volt is promising, only in that it's a sign of life along that front.

I didn't get to vote, because when I applied for a mail-in ballot (being out of the country), it took Elections Canada well over two weeks to process my application. (The whole election was only six weeks long.) By that point, it was obviously too late, so they send me an email on Sunday saying "sorry, you sent it to us too late.) I was pretty ticked. I sent it early enough. I'd swear that Harper had something to do with it, knowing full well that anyone who spends enough time out of the country generally becomes more left than they started with, but that's probably a reach.

I was quite annoyed to see my home riding, Oshawa, a GM town and an NDP bastion go Con for the third straight time. What happened to these people?

Oh, and I was born in Jack Layton's ward, back when he was a city councillor. He feels like home to me, for that reason.

I almost got hit by Jacks bus yesterday!!

I've read this 5x, and still don't know what you're trying to say.

Many European countries have a version of a Carbon Tax, and it didn't hurt their economy. Those are the countries we should be emulating, not America. I find it hilarious that most Canadians think we are a Super Power and should follow American political and economic models. It's like those idiots who complain that Canada doesn't win as many gold medals as China at the Olympics. They're delusional.

As for manufacturing jobs, it's not taxes that drive them away, it's our artificially pumped up Canadian dollar that's killing jobs. I work in the film industry and I can tell you that only one major American movie has shot here all summer, and the winter looks even bleaker. We need to take this time, this inevitable recession, and revolutionize what we do here, look to the future - not the past. All hope of that went out down the toilet last night.

Looking over the paragraph, I meant "anything environmental", but I'll try to say it a different way.

Point 1: Harper put his entire campaign based on "Dion's carbon tax will kill the economy." Specifically, that adding a carbon tax would destroy Ontario manufacturing, Alberta's oil industry, etc. That was his basis for taking Canada out of Kyoto about two years ago, and it's his basis for opposing most environmental reforms advocated by the NDP and Greens. Harper says it will kill the economy.

Point 2: Since the economy has gone downhill, various parties have proposed plans that involve heavily investing in said manufacturing economy. This seems to be the only idea anyone has when the economy dies.

What I was trying to say is that the manufacturing economy of Ontario has no one to blame but itself, and perhaps Harper, for producing products that are not environmentally friendly (i.e. poor gas-mileage cars), because in the new environmental age, and in the age of $100/barrel oil, those products simply aren't competitive. People will not buy a polluting car, not because it's bad for the environment, but because it costs more to run.

Yet despite this, the manufacturers of Ontario, and specifically Detroit, have come out and railed against environmental initiatives such as Dion's carbon tax and the Kyoto protocol. They are railing against a plan that would force them to put a competitive product out for the first time in years.

That is why focusing on the environment rather than funding manufacturers is better long term for the economy, and specifically the Ontario economy. If we fund manufacturers, they're not going to change, and we're going to have this exact same problem 10 years from now. If we force them to conform environmentally, maybe some of them are going to pack up and leave, but the ones that will stay will create a more competitive product, leading to higher profits, and a better economy overall.

(This is getting completely off-topic but I am going to give it a go anyways)

Re: Carbon Tax
Canada and USA have two of the highest corporate tax rates in the world as it is already. All the platforms (minus conservatives) had no plans to lower the corporate tax when they planned to introduce this "Carbon Tax." So, you guys are pretty smart, why would I want to make cars in Oshawa when I can set-up shop in China for 1/10 of the price.

Re: Environmental issue and the big 3/manufacturing jobs
The big 3 starting going downhill when started handing out leases to every joe blow who came through the door. Also, ever notice how many dealerships were in such a small density? They know they made bad economic decisions, but they had to keep those 2$ dividends coming every quarter. They dropped the ball on small engine cars, but that's not Harper's fault. But I will say this, I had many friends who had summer jobs on these assembly lines. They got paid big bucks for doing fack all. I myself worked at Stelco for two summers - best summers ever. The work was a joke, but the pay was top notch (22/hr).

Re: Pumped Up Dollar wrt Movie Industry
I don't see your point. I've worked in downtown Toronto for the past 3 years, and honestly haven't noticed any increase/decline in the amount of films being shot here. Not to mention this film industry in Canada is such a short fraction of entire economy, it's not really worth arguing over.

Re: Economy going down hill
Not sure where you got this from.
- Unemployment levels have been hovering around 30-year lows, even during the past 3 months.
- The GDP growth in Canada is projected to lead all g7 countries over the next 2 years.
- poverty levels are at all-time lows.

I missed alot, but this should be enough for now.

You're right, China is what Canada should aspire to. Great idea.

I take it that if you owned a computer manufacturing plant you would want to have it in a country with a high corporate tax and the carbon tax on top. I feel bad for your shareholders.

I don't understand your dealership density point. The main point I gather from this is that you don't think factory workers deserve to be paid well. I disagree.

My point was that the companies were expanding more than they should have. This of course is not the fault of the workers. But I will say this, getting 30$ hr without post-secondary education is a thing of the past.

The film industry tanked after 9/11, that's the reason you haven't seen any difference in the past 3 years. The film industry used to bring BILLIONS of dollars to the Ontario economy.

I spent the past 5 mins googling any sort of information related to your claims, and came up with nothing.

GDP growth is complete meaningless non-sense.
OK. Quick except from Econ 101 - "GDP is widely used by economists to gauge the health of an economy."

Completely false, you're really talking out of your ass here.
LICO is at a 60 yr low. I don't any thing past that.

Yes Canada has high tax rates, and I don't complain about it all.Canada has always compensated their tax laws towards people who wouldn't be able to afford certain taxes, and I'm certain that this would've applied to the carbon tax as well. Rich people pay a lot of taxes in this country, but it's not like they can't afford it. Instead of complaining we should be thankful that our country's economic system isn't like the State's, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

The "big three" went down the tubes when they decided to almost exclusively sell those big-ass luxury SUV's ten years ago. Yes people bought them for a while when gas prices were cheaper, but now that has changed. You can argue that people demanded and they supplied, but part of successful business is predicting trends, and NA auto companies royally f*cked up in that category.

Back to the carbon tax ... the polluting of the last century has really impacted the environment. This is a real crisis, and most people are too stupid to think for themselves that they should turn that light off, and maybe walk to the store. So if the only reason for some people to be motivated to do their part is so they can save a buck, then so be it. If you're already doing your part then a carbon tax wouldn't really be a problem now, would it?

A few points:

+Poverty is at an all-time low. I'll grant that. Every year for the past decade it has reached a new low (or it seems that way).

+Canada may lead the G8 in GDP growth, but when that growth is 1%, and way down from previous years, I still call that economic problems. Besides, with the US and Europe and Japan in or near recession, leading the G8 in GDP growth isn't saying much.

+Dion said that he'd lower taxes to make up for the rise in Carbon Tax. It wasn't supposed to be a tax increase, but a tax shift. Heavy polluters, such as the oil drillers in Alberta who are pulling in record profits and can afford this, would pay higher taxes; non-polluters, such as most businesses, and businesses that we want in our industry, would actually get a tax break out of this.

Some US election Humor.