Personally I like CV, I think he's got great offensive instincts and his rebounding is awesome. But I haven't seen Frye play and statistically he's ripping it up. He's currently ranked #2 for rookies. Is this guy a legit center? If he is Babcock probably blew another draft by skipping on him. Bosh and a legit center would've been a much better fit for this team in the long term.

I haven't seen Frye play, but if he does play like a legit centre then Babcock definately chose the wrong player. However, had Isiah not been there a lot of other teams would have skipped on Frye as well. Whether or not you like Isiah, he is extremely good at evaluating draft talent.

Yeah but is Frye a banger or finesse Raef Lafrentz type? Raps have plenty of guys to shoot jumpers. We need someone with D and rebounding.

Not really. The Knicks desperately needed a center. Anyone with half a brain would have taken Frye in that situation. It's just lucky for Thomas that he's a very good player. Babcock's pick is way more impressive.

so thomas got lucky but babcock's pick was all skill.......cough........cough........sorry must have something in my throat.

^ lol, precisely.

In addition, why would Isiah trade Sweetney? I don't see the logic behind that. A Frye-Sweetney front court would have been deadly in the near future. Now he's got a Frye-Curry frontcourt, which would have been much more appealing if Curry wasn't about to collapse on the court any game now.

^^true, especially given that while a Frye/Curry combo can score 20-30/night, it'll be amusing to watch both of them ineptly stumbling after rebounds...

Before making such a comparison, you should look at the way Frye has been scoring. 98% of his shots are open midrange jumpers ala Kurt Thomas. That's all he did from the few games I watched for the Knicks this season. He's atrocious ond defence, which can be said about Charlie too.

Frye has been used tremendously by the coaching staff to try and maximize his strenghts, but the same can't be said about CV.

Villanueva is far more talented and has a bigger upside IMO.

As a bit of an aside, as John Hollinger recently mentioned, whatever his other failings are Isiah is a hell of a drafter and has been since his days in Toronto. It just makes his record in trades and free agent signings all the more puzzling, including his moves this off season for Jerome James and Eddy Curry. James is a disaster and Frye is averaging more points and minutes than Eddy. I'm still at a loss as to how the Nazr trade made any sense at all. But I digress.

The one thing to keep in mind is Frye reportedly refused to work out for the Raptors. Not to say that is determinative of the debate but if babs had the players closely ranked he might have been swayed by Frye's lack of (let's put it politely) enthusiasm. On draft day both Sam and babs made these cryptic comments about getting players that "wanted to be here" (stupid comment). They may have been referring to Frye, among others.

Just on the merits of the two players - I haven't seen enough of Frye to make a call.

I don't think Frye is much of a rebounder for his size. He looks like a more offensively skilled Mark Blount at this point whereas Charlie V has shown the ability to snag boards (particularly on the offensive glass).

CV3 can create his own shots, Frye would need an open shot.

CV3 looks like a natural born rebounder, Frye looks like a shooter/ shot blocker

I would say CV3 is better, because he is more of a threat/ offensive weapon

Yeah - I was really puzzled when he traded both Nazr and K Thomas last year.

Right now, it seems like frye is better, which surprises the heck outta me.

I think a better judge of the pick will be in 2-3 years when we can see what both players become.

I watched Frye yesterday afternoon against Boston, and he was playing SF for most of the second half with a combo of Jackie Butler/Antonio Davis/Eddie Curry/Jerome James playing PF/C for NYC...

The guy had Pierce guarding him most of the second half, and was raining jumpers cuz Pierce was constantly leaving him open by double teaming on Marbury... Watching that reminded me a lot of how opposing defenses used to double Jalen or Bosh in the post last season leaving Bonner wide open for jumpshots...

I'm not comparing Frye to Bonner, mind you, b/c Frye is way more atheletic and longer... But I'm saying he wasn't much of a centre... and he doesn't grab a lot of boards... And he isn't as skilled as CV is in terms of putting the ball on the floor and passing...

Oh, and I think Babs passed on the guy because he refused (I think) to come to T.O. for a workout, meaning he probably didn't have very much interest in suiting up for the Raps had they chosen him...

Not really skill, it's just that Babcock took a much bigger risk in drafting Charlie V. Isiah HAD to draft Frye.

Well i will concede that i've been impressed that babcock had the balls to pick CV, an unpopular pick, after making so many other unpopular (bad) moves in the past. Now if he has the IQ to go with those brass cojones who knows in a couple years we might be contenders.

I'm not too bent out over Frye vs. CV. Neither of them really addresses any of this teams most pressing needs. While Frye is doing well statistically, he isn't a low post defensive presence (neither is CV) and as libra mentioned he may well have been the player that didn't want to come here.



This is so true. People don't like to hear this because of the terms on which the relationship ended, but Isiah has been the Raptors best GM to date.

That said, I think Isiah's true calling is not as a coach or a GM, but as the head of a scouting department. If he could just take a step back, see that and focus on that strength he would be an incredible asset to a front office. He just needs to leave the trades to others.

I think we could have used Frye better...

Right now: Channing Frye
In 3 years: Charlie Villenueva

I like charlie's passing ability. When you have a guy like Bosh in the frontcourt with him, a big that can pass is nice. I haven't seen much of Frye so I can't comment on him, but I like what Chuck brings to the raps.

People also have to remember Frye didn't workout for the Raps. It would've been a big risk for the Raps to draft a guy who most thought was going to be a bust without working him out. The reward of him vs. Charlie wouldn't have been big enough. I'd take Charlie anyways. Like IdentityCrisis mentioned, you don't find a big man with Charlie's passing skills everyday.

I was just about to make this exact post. How can you justify drafting a player who won't even work out for your team? Right now, Frye would probably be ahead of Charlie in ROY voting, but let's revisit this comparison at the end of the season.

I don't think it will change much by the end of the season, it's not like Charlie is going to get more oppurtunity later, he's already playing more minutes than Frye. For Frye as a rookie to be able to get consistant minutes on a LB team, that's quite impressive.

With the comparison though, like people said, he didn't work out for us, and he's more of a PF than C, though he's capable of both. He does have a great shooting touch though.

^ Larry Brown has no choice right now, it's not like he has anyone else to play.

There both probably gonna be real solid starters in this league. No one comes out and plays as well as both of them have in their rookie seasons and not turn out real good.

Like most, haven't really seen Frye that much. My friend, whose all up in the NCAA has said the same thing since last year: Frye is a jump shooter.
It just seems watching Charlie though, you think you've only seen half of what he can do. He's already looks like the slickest post scorer on the team. "He's the best passing big men they've ever had" (Jack Armstrong). He's got range up till the 3 pt line. He's probably the best offensive rebounder on the team and the second best rebounder. He looks like a great off the ball shot blocker. He's also pretty clutch, which is key.
I've gotta say, Charlie looks like a special player. He's a guard in a forwards body. Haven't been this impressed since Vince's rookie season.

sidenote: If you could a player for one year, would you take rookie Vince or Vince right now. I'd take rookie Vince.

Same here. Although Charlie isn't having quite the impact of Vince, he's got a lot of potential. He is sorta inconsistent, but hopefully that will iron itself out.